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Adam_Gill
12-13-2016, 11:29 AM
Quick question: would further mastering techniques help on this track and, if so, how?

https://soundcloud.com/simply_adam/piano-ensemble

Thanks!
aggie

Osmose
12-13-2016, 01:24 PM
Might eq it differently and iw would´ve go over the stereo image but i dont think that is were you need to search in order to improve it to be honest

Adam_Gill
12-13-2016, 01:29 PM
Thanks - not sure I understand your message. To EQ the stereo channels - but that won't improve it..?

Voyager
12-13-2016, 09:11 PM
Hello Adam, at 0:55, intended ?

Now mixing wise i would have make this a little bit differently. I would have keep the piano on the center, because the piano it's in my opinion the main instrument of the track and since you have no bass or any lows it would fit in the center very well.

Then i would have add a little bit more presence to the strings and make them more wide in your stereo imaging, just to fullfil the stage. And finally panned the flutes left and the brass right (or vice versa depending on the feeling). But the idea is that those instruments play around your piano which is the foundation of the track.

But of course is just my personal opinion :D

Otherwise is not that much the mastering that is going to fix your track but it's more about mixing. If you can get an excellent mix you even don't need to think about master your track.

Osmose
12-13-2016, 11:43 PM
Thanks - not sure I understand your message. To EQ the stereo channels - but that won't improve it..?

MM i might have concluded to quickly, apologies if so.

My train of thought was that; it sounded like you were looking for ways to improve its quality (concluded here) because you couldnt get more out of it.. If that makes sense..

Thing is, proper mastering will give slight improvements (as a rule of thumb.. i know, there's exceptions both ways) so ye, proper techniques could make it sound better. But more or less, and especially since yoour going for that orchestral sound here, almost all of it is in the mix. So i think that there is were you need to adres things that you dont like.

Adam_Gill
12-14-2016, 09:41 AM
OK - piano more central - brass left/right - flute right/left - bring up/widen strings... and if I bring down the original gain, I can clean the muddy elements... I'm not sure what is meant by "@ 0:55 secs" (I don't detect anything)?

EDIT: I've now tried all of those things out - for comparison - most of the changes occur from around 2:05 onwards:

https://soundcloud.com/simply_adam/piano-ensemble

Thanks everyone!
Adam

Voyager
12-14-2016, 11:45 AM
Hi Adams, about at 0:55, i'm not pianist but i have that feeling that a note goes a tiny bit slighlty off there.

About the mix, you may have center a bit the piano but the difference is not that much noticable because it's stereo effect is quit wide. I would have decrease just a bit it's wideness and thus giving more space for the upcoming instruments on the sides.

I like how you placed the flutes they sound great there, but the brass are too much panned to the left in my opnion, they are too much isolated from the rest, i would have panned them just as you did for the flutes.

For the strings i would have made them even more wide, just by using a good chorus ( you can found some good patches for in the edit insert in the ssl mixer )and eventually use mid/side processing and as i said to fullfil that stage from wide left of your stereo imaging to far right, just like the strings were supporting all the others instruments.

Now if you notice at 2:09 when the flutes and brass kick in, your strings almost disappear. That why i was talking about giving them some space and presence. Also equing your tracks will help to separate each instruments and prevent some frequencies to fight each other for the same place in the frequency spectrum.

Everything i'm talking about arrangement in the mix here is just my personal opinion and how i would have mix it, opinions aren't rules.

If you didn't watch the Learn Reason "how to mix" video's hosted by Matt on Youtube i strongly advise you to do it, it will help you to have a different insight of the mixing work.

Adam_Gill
12-14-2016, 12:41 PM
This is great, insightful stuff - thank you so much!

(:55 was a "G" instead of an "E" - well spotted!)

Original:
https://soundcloud.com/simply_adam/piano-ensemble

And so I will continue with my study and training.... :)

Adam

Osmose
12-14-2016, 01:18 PM
If i may add, to me it sounds like your grabbed presets (like in combinator strings) and only sorta did eq'ing and panning for mixing; and this left you with different reverbs.

If so, i'd suggest getting one reverb on your ssl mixer auxillery and use that accros the board. Maybe do some smart reverb techniques on the piano so it sounds more "lush".

Also the whole mix sounds rather "mid toned" really focussed on like the 4 to 800 ranges. You could adress that in your mastering chain by ducking it down (the typical smiley face eq). This will give you a deeper and fuller sound. Some cinematic low end depth on occassion wouldnt be bad either ;)

Adam_Gill
12-14-2016, 01:35 PM
..you're right about presets... except the piano/grand, which I did apply more ADSR techniques to - perhaps not enough(?) I'll take a look at a "master" reverb effect and tinker about with it.

I haven't taken a real close look at the ranges, so I will try that also.

Thanks so much - learning, learning, learning... :)

Adam

Voyager
12-14-2016, 06:50 PM
..you're right about presets... except the piano/grand, which I did apply more ADSR techniques to - perhaps not enough(?) I'll take a look at a "master" reverb effect and tinker about with it.

I haven't taken a real close look at the ranges, so I will try that also.

Thanks so much - learning, learning, learning... :)

Adam

As i said before, check the how to mix video tutorials from Learn Reason, if you didn't it's a must. You are going to save a lot of time and improve your workflow.

You have 24 parts and you start from here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMYbTcUILvM

Adam_Gill
12-14-2016, 08:51 PM
OK - yes, seems like a good place to start... thanks!